Determinism and Indeterminism as Model Artefacts: Toward a Model-Invariant Ontology of Physics

arXiv:2512.22540 · physics.hist-ph, quant-ph · Submitted 2025-12-27 · Read on arXiv

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Introduction to the show: ident: Quantum Radio. Generated commentary on the latest quantum physics and condensed matter papers.

Kai: Today's paper: "Determinism and Indeterminism as Model Artefacts".

Mira: The gist: Deterministic–stochastic dualities are available in principle, and arise in a non-contrived way in many scientifically important models.

Kai: First, who's behind it and why it matters.

Paper summary: Kai: So, wrapping up this look at "Determinism and Indeterminism as Model Artefacts: Toward a Model-Invariant Ontology of Physics," the core idea is that both determinism and indeterminism are just artifacts of our modeling practice rather than deep features of nature <ref:2512.22540#pg1>.

Mira: Right, and they’re really pushing for this model-invariance criterion where you only count the structural stuff that remains the same no matter how you reformulate the math, like conservation laws or symmetries <ref:2512.22540#pg3>.

Lev: So it’s saying that whether a system is described as deterministic or stochastic just depends on which representation you pick for your specific setup, right?

Kai: That’s the gist of it. Like in quantum mechanics, coarse-graining leads to stochastic rules even if the underlying rules are unitary evolution <ref:2512.22540#pg3>.

Mira: It really shifts the goal of ontology from picking a single theory to finding those robust structural features that survive all those different ways of writing things down <ref:2512.22540#pg3>.

Lev: And for someone working on error correction, this means we focus on what structure is conserved across those transitions, not whether the specific transition itself is deterministic or probabilistic <ref:2512.22540#pg3>.

Kai: It suggests that the distinction between determinism and indeterminism isn't a metaphysical split in the universe itself, but more about how our modeling practice encodes that underlying structure <ref:2512.22540#pg1>.

Mira: It means the real work for physics is figuring out what stays invariant across all those reformulations because that’s where they find what actually matters ontologically <ref:2512.22540#pg3>.

Conclusion: Kai: So, we’ve been digging into this paper about determinism and indeterminism—"Determinism and Indeterminism as Model Artefacts: Toward a Model-Invariant Ontology of Physics"—and the big idea is that both are just artifacts of how we choose to model things instead of deep features in nature.

Mira: Exactly. They propose this model-invariant ontology criterion where you only count structural stuff that stays the same no matter how you reformulate the math, like conservation laws or symmetries.

Lev: So it’s saying whether a system is described as deterministic or stochastic just depends on which representation you pick for your specific setup, right?

Kai: Right. Like in quantum mechanics, coarse-graining leads to stochastic rules even if the underlying rules are unitary evolution. It reframes the measurement problem as a choice of representational framework.

Mira: It really shifts the goal of ontology from picking a single theory to finding those robust structural features that survive all these different ways of writing things down.

Lev: And for someone working on error correction, this means we focus on what structure is conserved across those transitions, not whether the specific transition is deterministic or probabilistic.

Kai: It suggests that the distinction between determinism and indeterminism isn't a metaphysical split in the universe itself, but more about how our modeling practice encodes that underlying structure.

Mira: It means the real work for physics is figuring out what stays invariant across all those reformulations. That’s where they find what actually matters ontologically.

Kai: What this does for us is it suggests that instead of getting stuck arguing over which representation is "correct," we should be looking for the mathematical skeleton that all those representations share.

Mira: It means if you can show a transition structure survives coarse-graining, then that structure holds some kind of reality, even if we can't pinpoint the exact microscopic rule governing it.

Lev: For running experiments, this is helpful because it tells us what features we absolutely need to test to make sure our results are independent of how we choose to describe the system.

Kai: It sounds like the paper is saying that when you look at physics, you shouldn't be looking for a single truth about what happens at every point, but rather the stable relations between those points.

Mira: That’s right. It reframes determinism and indeterminism as just different languages we use to describe the same underlying physical reality.

physics.hist-ph, quant-ph

Submitted: 2025-12-27

Updated: 2026-10-08

Comments: V3 Substantial rewrite following referee comments

License: http://arxiv.org/licenses/nonexclusive-distrib/1.0/

Importance score: 82/100

The gist: The gist: Deterministic–stochastic dualities are available in principle, and arise in a non-contrived way in many scientifically important models.

Key concepts

Model-Invariant Ontology Criterion
This criterion dictates that only structural features remain stable when a model is reformulated in an empirically equivalent way. Features like conservation laws are considered real because they persist across different mathematical representations, shifting focus from specific math to persistent relational structures.
Representational Duality and Model-Equivalence
It shows that a deterministic system can be recast as stochastic, and vice versa, while keeping the observable outcomes the same. This duality arises because fine-grained details are lost when coarse-graining for observation. The form of the model (deterministic vs. stochastic) is thus a choice in representation.
Gauge Freedom and Invariant Structure
When state spaces are simplified to match empirical resolution, multiple descriptions—deterministic or stochastic—can yield the same observable dynamics. What is truly invariant across these choices is the underlying modal and relational structure of the system, which should be the focus of ontology.

Terminology

Summary

The gist: Deterministic–stochastic dualities are available in principle, and arise in a non-contrived way in many scientifically important models. This paper argues that both determinism and indeterminism as commonly understood are representational artefacts of our models rather than ontologically significant features of the world.

Model-Invariant Ontology Criterion

The central claim developed in this paper is that only structural features that remain stable across empirically equivalent formulations, and whose empirically accessible physical effects are preserved under such reformulations, qualify as candidates for realism. This criterion shifts attention away from the specific mathematical form of a model and towards the modal and relational structure that persists through representational variation. This yields a fallibilist form of structural realism grounded in modal robustness rather than in the specifics of any given mathematical representation. Features such as conservation laws, symmetries, and causal or metric structure satisfy this criterion and can be encoded in observable relations in mathematically intelligible ways. By contrast, the localisation of modal selection—whether in initial conditions, stochastic outcomes, or informational collapse mechanisms—is not invariant under empirically equivalent reformulations and is therefore best understood as a gauge choice rather than an ontological feature.

Representational Duality and Model-Equivalence

The paper illustrates how a deterministic dynamical model can be reformulated as a stochastic one in a way that preserves the preparation–measurement correlation structure, rendering the two models empirically indistinguishable for the relevant observables. This representational duality is not confined to the Bernoulli map but is a recurring feature of deterministic dynamical systems exhibiting chaotic behaviour under suitable coarse-grainings. The text notes that any stochastic process can be represented deterministically on an appropriately defined path space, while deterministic models with fine-grained but inaccessible microstates routinely admit stochastic coarse-grained descriptions that capture observable behaviour while suppressing microstate detail. This shows that whether a model is presented in deterministic or indeterministic form depends on representational choices.

Gauge Freedom and Invariant Structure

The paper argues that underdetermination of modal structure is not merely epistemic but reflects a genuine gauge freedom induced by finite empirical resolution. Once fine-grained state spaces are quotiented by observational equivalence classes, multiple inequivalent descriptions—deterministic or stochastic—can generate the same empirically accessible transition structure. What remains invariant across these reformulations is the induced modal and relational structure of the dynamics. This invariance is what I will argue to be the appropriate content of ontological commitment. In classical systems, coarse-graining by a finite partition replaces exact symplectic diffeomorphisms with stochastic dynamics on cells, and the defining invariant content of Hamiltonian mechanics survives as conservation of probability flow.

Quantum Analogy and Measurement Problem

In the quantum case, coarse-graining necessarily leads to stochastic transition rules that may be governed by either deterministic or indeterministic completions of empirically verifiable quantum transition rules. The freedom in how states are represented within a coarse cell is analogous to the gauge freedom relating empirically indistinguishable microstates in the classical case. The resulting description consists of unitary evolution interspersed with irreducibly probabilistic transitions associated with observation, which reclassifies the measurement problem as a question about how different representational frameworks encode the same invariant empirical transition structure.

Conclusion on Ontological Commitment

The opposition between determinism and indeterminism is not a metaphysical divide in nature but a difference in modelling practice that reflects how invariant empirical structure is encoded. The task of ontology, on this view, is not to choose between such representations, but to identify and articulate the structural features that remain stable across them. Where model-invariant structure thus leaves open whether decisive modal transitions are stochastic or deterministic in origin, it is more accurate to say that this distinction is simply not fixed by the empirically accessible dynamical structure itself.

General Applications

The analysis suggests that empirical access constrains only a finite-resolution dynamical structure while leaving open multiple, representationally distinct ways of realizing that structure at sub-empirical scales. The most permissive level is an empirical gauge, under which only those features fixed by observed transition statistics are held invariant. This empirical probability current itself is what remains invariant across all representations.

Final Summary of Findings

The paper establishes a model-invariance criterion for ontological commitment where a structural feature qualifies only if it is fixed across all empirically equivalent representations. This framework explains how long-standing problems in the foundations of physics arise from the reification of representational artefacts. The distinction between determinism and indeterminism is thus reframed as a difference in modelling practice rather than a metaphysical divide in nature. This approach allows for the possibility that the decisive modalities modulating between extremes are not fixed by the current theory.

Acknowledgements

I would like to thank Nicholas Parkin for conversations, and for drawing my attention to some relevant physics work, and Arnold Neumeier for comments on the first draft of this paper.

References

The references listed at the end of the paper support the claims made throughout these sections. The specific references cited are [1] Barandes, J.A., 2018, [6] Kolmogorov, A.N., 1950, and others listed in the bibliography.

Improvements for AI systems

  1. This system can distinguish between model-invariant structure and modelling conventions. It will prioritize features such as conservation laws, symmetries, and causal or metric structure that remain stable across empirically equivalent representations.

  2. The AI can adopt a fallibilist form of structural realism where it treats only model-invariant structure as the primary locus of ontological commitment while classifying features such as determinism and indeterminism as representational artefacts.

  3. It will treat "the localization of modal selection—whether in initial conditions, stochastic outcomes, or informational collapse mechanisms—is not invariant under empirically equivalent reformulations and is therefore best understood as a gauge choice rather than an ontological feature."

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